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TheOneNOnly
Advanced Member
United States
1,937 posts
Joined: Oct, 2008
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 Posted - 2009/05/03 : 15:07:14
quote:
Originally posted by DjSamination:
quote:
Originally posted by DjTriquatra:
they arent problems!!...its personality!! :P
so when companies forces you to be 18 and have a steady work so you can get a creditcard, itäs your personality? =P
Pfft.
Prepaid gift "credit" cards ftw.
No fuss, no interest.
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rosin007
Senior Member
Norway
409 posts
Joined: Oct, 2008
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Posted - 2009/05/03 : 15:09:02
I am pro file sharing. I download all the music and movies I want at the ****** *** except hardcore, because I want the scene to continue.
I also have spotify, where I listen to all the non hardcore music.
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silver
Admin
Japan
12,579 posts
Joined: Feb, 2001
894 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2009/05/03 : 15:32:19
The argument of it's not for sale anymore is weak, what happened 10 years ago before the internet and sharing and you couldn't find something? You didn't have it or you went to hunt it down. If Vinylgroover doesn't want to re-press or sell his tunes then it's all good, it's his choice. It's sort of like saying if someone dies, it's okay to steal his stuff now because he's dead. Same with music, if an artist leaves the genre or stops making the tunes it's upto them to do what they want with the track. The artist owns the track if they want to sit on it it's upto them.
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Samination
Advanced Member
Sweden
13,279 posts
Joined: Jul, 2004
195 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2009/05/03 : 15:51:18
quote:
Originally posted by TheOneNOnly:
Pfft.
Prepaid gift "credit" cards ftw.
No fuss, no interest.
You can't get such a card everywhere, or in every country, and even if you did, it must be VISA or MasterCard (for most stores)
silver: ofcourse, that's why I sent a mail to Scott asking him about it... But how do you virtually steal something from a dead mans house?
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Samination, Swedish Hardcore DJ
Happy, UK Hardcore, Freeform, Makina and Gabber
http://samination.se/
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Edited by - Samination on 2009/05/03 15:55:18 |
choonland
Advanced Member
Colombia
1,100 posts
Joined: Dec, 2007
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Posted - 2009/05/03 : 16:37:36
quote:
Originally posted by Samination:
You can't get such a card everywhere, or in every country, and even if you did, it must be VISA or MasterCard (for most stores)
thats true, and i think its a mayor issue considering a lot of the new hardcore fans are under age and dont have credit or debit cards to buy stuff
I'd love to start buying tracks (i even got a list of tracks i want to buy when i have the chance) but right now i have no incomes, no cards of any type, so I'm basically screwed. off course this does not justifies file sharing, its just a reality...
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Edited by - choonland on 2009/05/03 16:38:37 |
Triquatra
Moderator
United Kingdom
12,640 posts
Joined: Nov, 2003
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Posted - 2009/05/03 : 17:14:56
meh, i wouldnt say the argument is that weak...10 years ago things were differnet, same as 10 years before that, eventually things will fall into the public domain
dont see anyone putting the smackdown on the amen break yet ;)
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Edited by - Triquatra on 2009/05/03 18:19:00 |
Nav
New Member
United States
76 posts
Joined: Nov, 2008
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Posted - 2009/05/03 : 17:40:25
Most of the people here don't understand the concept at the core of filesharing. Most of the files that are shared originate from the same place: a bunch of groups who release the files in the first place, known as the scene. They are a really exclusive group, and their focus is on keeping the ACTUAL scene alive, by buying the music and sharing it with other scene groups, who go out and buy the releases themselves, if they like it.
However, when these scene releases leak down to the public level, aka public ******* sites and the like, the problems begin, as the intent is not to preview anymore (as it was on the scene level), but to get it for free instead.
There's little we can do to stop this: it's simply a changed music distribution paradigm. I say that it has changed, because the change has occurred: traditional methods of obtaining music are now obsolete. However, the majority of people do not realize this and continue to press on the lowly filesharers, saying "IF THE INTERNET WAS POLICED CORRECTLY GRRR," when, truthfully, it's impossible to police the internet. There is absolutely no way to track people who are filesharing, if they know how to cover their tracks. It's similar to keeping marijuana illegal: "IF ONLY IT WAS POLICED CORRECTLY!!!" The law enforcement officers do what they can, but you can't stop even a small fraction of it.
I hope that you all understand what I'm trying to say here: It's up to the people who distribute the music to compensate for the piracy, as it cannot be stopped. There will always be people who choose to give it to the masses, and no matter how much bitching the "true" supporters of the scene, the label owners, or the anti-piracy lobbyists give... people will always pirate music. The only "solution" is a reactionary one... disable the internet, and people will stop filesharing. Nope, not even that will work: you can still dub tapes and burn CDs. Oh well.
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Samination
Advanced Member
Sweden
13,279 posts
Joined: Jul, 2004
195 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2009/05/03 : 17:58:28
quote:
Originally posted by Nav:
Most of the people here don't understand the concept at the core of filesharing. Most of the files that are shared originate from the same place: a bunch of groups who release the files in the first place, known as the scene. They are a really exclusive group, and their focus is on keeping the ACTUAL scene alive, by buying the music and sharing it with other scene groups, who go out and buy the releases themselves, if they like it.
However, when these scene releases leak down to the public level, aka public ******* sites and the like, the problems begin, as the intent is not to preview anymore (as it was on the scene level), but to get it for free instead.
There's little we can do to stop this: it's simply a changed music distribution paradigm. I say that it has changed, because the change has occurred: traditional methods of obtaining music are now obsolete. However, the majority of people do not realize this and continue to press on the lowly filesharers, saying "IF THE INTERNET WAS POLICED CORRECTLY GRRR," when, truthfully, it's impossible to police the internet. There is absolutely no way to track people who are filesharing, if they know how to cover their tracks. It's similar to keeping marijuana illegal: "IF ONLY IT WAS POLICED CORRECTLY!!!" The law enforcement officers do what they can, but you can't stop even a small fraction of it.
I hope that you all understand what I'm trying to say here: It's up to the people who distribute the music to compensate for the piracy, as it cannot be stopped. There will always be people who choose to give it to the masses, and no matter how much bitching the "true" supporters of the scene, the label owners, or the anti-piracy lobbyists give... people will always pirate music. The only "solution" is a reactionary one... disable the internet, and people will stop filesharing. Nope, not even that will work: you can still dub tapes and burn CDs. Oh well.
Rofl, did you copy that text from MPAA's statements about the Scene and TPB?
That's total CRAP mate. you make the Scene sound like innocent compared to the masses. They're more ruthless than anything, stealing other people's releases to get more access to more.
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Samination, Swedish Hardcore DJ
Happy, UK Hardcore, Freeform, Makina and Gabber
http://samination.se/
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whispering
Moderator
Finland
8,455 posts
Joined: Nov, 2002
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Posted - 2009/05/03 : 20:50:57
In a perfect world, artists would do the music they love, labels would do everything they can to deliver the music to the listeners, and the listeners would appriciate the effort and buy the music in an convinient way.
Unfortunately, the scenes are filled with people that try to make music that sells. Labels dont give a **** about their customers and only try to maximize their profits and the listeners dont give a **** who pays for the music, as long its not themselves. That is the feeling i often get.
Its the artists job to do music the best they can.
Its the labels responsibility to make the music available to the public in an convinient way. In this age and day if they live in the past, then copying music to your friends is perfectly legal and accepted, if they dont then their better get the tunes to a store in a format that isnt a century old. They cant have it both ways. And people should pay for the music when its available.
Hollywood companys need to realise that its people like me who pay their ****ing bills. If they make a serie, throw the axe and cancel it in the middle of the serie or a damn cliffhanger, without giving the cast and crew the opportunity to close the story (assuming its not selling well). They damn well owe it to me to pay a little from their own pockets and close the story. People need to realise that when movies make millions, they usually cost millions. The income goes into the mansions of the cast and crew, but it also goes back into funding new productions. If you download your TV series, buy the DVD set.
tl;dr Everyone are greedy bastards.
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Edited by - whispering on 2009/05/03 20:54:04 |
whispering
Moderator
Finland
8,455 posts
Joined: Nov, 2002
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Posted - 2009/05/03 : 21:08:59
ALL music should be available as digital downloads, when you buy a digital copy, you should be able to buy the CD with only a little extra cost (you have already payed for the music, youre then only buying the disc and covers). Also ALL music should be made freely available as 56kbps downloads, with added commercials to the site where you download them.
ALL movies should be made freely available with forced commercials in them that cant be skipped (i'm sure they have the money to make such technology possible). Paying for youre copy would remove these commercials. And buying the product in a physical form should be made in a reduced price, as youve already payed for the content.
Companys adding country restrictions to free content should be punished. The **** does e.g. AATW think they can acheave when i cant watch the video they added to youtube, when its already been added by several others. Also what the **** does that have against my country. I take it as an insult and lose all respect for companys that do such things.
But thats just my opinion.
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Edited by - whispering on 2009/05/03 21:10:24 |
choonland
Advanced Member
Colombia
1,100 posts
Joined: Dec, 2007
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Posted - 2009/05/03 : 21:30:22
quote:
Originally posted by whispering:
ALL music should be made freely available as 56kbps downloads, with added commercials to the site where you download them.
ALL movies should be made freely available with forced commercials in them that cant be skipped
those are actually some very good ideas!!
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Nav
New Member
United States
76 posts
Joined: Nov, 2008
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Posted - 2009/05/04 : 01:09:52
quote:
Originally posted by Samination:
Rofl, did you copy that text from MPAA's statements about the Scene and TPB?
That's total CRAP mate. you make the Scene sound like innocent compared to the masses. They're more ruthless than anything, stealing other people's releases to get more access to more.
"Rofl", did you even read my post? The MPAA despises anyone who performs piracy of any kind. I am strongly pro-piracy.
When I tried to write a sentence placing the blame on someone, I realized that the only people to blame are the label owners and the people who have, in the past, been in charge of distribution, as they are failing to react to the changed paradigm of distribution.
I like Whispering's suggestions, but they aren't realistic. If the "major" hardcore labels like Raver Baby/Evolution can't be arsed to even make an mp3 store, then there's no way that they will be making low quality versions freely available. Hell, they expect you to buy "mixed" CDs that are no more than compilations, mixed from the fronts to the backs to the fronts, with little interest in doing anything other than selling.
It's labels that refuse to respond that **** the market for the rest of us. If Raver Baby put all of their content on an mp3 store, then I would happily buy all of my favorites. However, if you're not from the UK, then it costs a ****ing fortune to ship the music "across the pond."
In the end, I don't really know what to say about this issue. It's been discussed to death and back again. Hopefully others will respond Kniteforce-style, as I absolutely support what Luna-C did, and he will definitely be rewarded by myself and others in the future.
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DJ_FunDaBounce
Advanced Member
Colombia
2,150 posts
Joined: Nov, 2001
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Posted - 2009/05/04 : 03:37:21
I personally don't file share for 2 reasons...
1.The music I play and the software I use is legit, therefore making me more reputable as a d.j. and studio owner, in my opinion.
2.Respect for the scene(artists,labels etc.)
I understand Naturatech's argument about not everyone having access to a credit card. That's where I would see something like the 56kbps versions come in to play, so EVERYONE can have a taste of the goods, as far as the music goes.
Then again, not everyone has access to the internet.
There will always be collectors which in my view will hold up the vinyl market.
One thing I have against mp3's is the unclear aspect of what it is you're actually buying.
After all it's "just" a digital copy of a work(quote-unquote the word JUST due to the ease of copying a digital file). Unless things like guaranteeing me an unlimited license where I could re-download the track as many times as I could ever need in case of loss are guaranteed then I must admit we're bordering on selling air.
I would then propose a return to the physical pressings even if it's homeburnt copies of
CD's, just to get that "I own a part of the scene" feel (man! that would really be
undergound! *sarcasm as I'm actually doing this locally* :P )
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Samination
Advanced Member
Sweden
13,279 posts
Joined: Jul, 2004
195 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2009/05/04 : 13:49:17
"buying music digitally is like buying a car without a steering wheel".
This is how I feel about the arguement pro-vinyl people give me. So ****ing what if I cant touch what I bought? IT's music, something you hear, not something you can touch. It's not easy to fap because you hold onto it :P
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Samination, Swedish Hardcore DJ
Happy, UK Hardcore, Freeform, Makina and Gabber
http://samination.se/
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Torpex
Advanced Member
Poland
824 posts
Joined: Nov, 2005
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Posted - 2009/05/04 : 15:08:48
@Nav: as a "conscious filesharing supporter", can you please list your suggestions for improving the sales and the amount of money producers / labels receive? You already mentioned one - timely, complete and accessible paid digital downloads. I agree. What else?
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Edited by - Torpex on 2009/05/04 15:09:07 |
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